Vaibhav Singh opened the conversation with a blunt observation: there seems to be a glaring absence of protests when it comes to atrocities faced by Uyghur Muslims in China, Balochs in Pakistan, or even the Sindhi and Pashtun communities who have endured brutal oppression. He questioned why the deaths of 20,000 Mahajirs in Karachi, Hyderabad, and Sukkur go unmentioned in Indian Muslim discourse, while emotional demonstrations erupt for Palestine and Rohingya Muslims.

He highlighted the horrific reality in Xinjiang, where practicing Islam is almost criminalized—people are forced to surrender prayer mats in police stations, growing a beard is banned, and even Islamic names are discouraged. Yet, no placards or rallies appear in Indian streets for them.

Instead, Singh lamented, the spotlight is always on Palestine. Thousands protest in Indian cities, sometimes to the extent of vandalism, as was the case when some reportedly attacked Amar Jawan Jyoti in Mumbai in the name of solidarity with the Rohingyas. “Why such selective empathy?” he asked. “Are Indian Muslims afraid of Pakistan and China?”

Zahack Tanvir responded with a layered analysis that combined historical context with geopolitical realism. He agreed that the overwhelming focus on Palestine while ignoring other equally devastating crises suggests a form of emotional manipulation rather than informed advocacy. “Most Muslims here don’t even realize that India is engaged in a silent conflict with both Pakistan and China,” he said. “But even beyond that, there is a kind of shameless tunnel vision—where people hold on to just one or two issues and act as if those define the entire Muslim world’s struggle.”

He dug deeper into the Palestinian issue, emphasizing how it has evolved over the last 75 years into a political industry. “Billions have been poured into it. NGOs, lobbies, donations, protests—yet no solution has emerged. Not because one isn’t possible, but because resolving it would shut down a global cottage industry of activism, influence, and income,” Zahack said. He clarified that his statements weren’t anti-Palestinian but rather critical of the politicization of their suffering.

He further illustrated how Palestinians, themselves a diverse mix of Muslims, Christians, Communists, Marxists, and Atheists, have historically disrupted the very nations that sheltered them. In Lebanon, internal conflict erupted with the local Christian population. In Jordan, they attempted to assassinate King Hussein. “This isn’t just a Muslim issue—it was initially an Arab issue supported by Arab Christians,” Zahack explained.

Shifting the lens inward, he shared a startling reality: many Palestinians, Syrians, and Jordanians are unaware that India has over 250 million Muslims. “When I told them, they were shocked. For them, Pakistan equals Muslims, and India equals Hindus,” Zahack said.

And yet, Indian Muslims in places like Mominpura, Shivaji Nagar, or Zakir Nagar wage symbolic battles—boycotting multinational brands like Nestlé, Starbucks, and McDonald’s—as a gesture of protest.

“But what difference does it make? In 1973, all Arab nations imposed an oil embargo on the U.S. It didn’t stop America from giving $2 billion in aid to Israel, and later $8 billion more,” Zahack pointed out. “When a country has wealth and a strong lobby, a few boycotted chocolates and potato chips won’t matter.”

Zahack stressed that national interest should always come first. “Every country is looking after itself. Sudan and Morocco don’t have a problem with Israel. Bahrain and the UAE have formal ties. The Turks and Kurds have moved on. So why are we getting emotionally entangled in their politics?”

Zahack reiterated India’s pragmatic foreign policy: a two-state solution that respects both Israeli and Palestinian rights to exist. “India isn’t blindly siding with anyone. It maintains healthy relations with Russia, the U.S., Israel, and the Arab nations. We are focused on trade, growth, and development,” he said.

He ended the discussion with a powerful anecdote: while speaking with an Egyptian army officer, Zahack explained why India doesn’t get involved in third-party fights. The officer nodded in agreement, appreciating India’s non-interventionist stance.

“Why should we fight your fight?” Zahack asked. “You fight today and hug tomorrow. We’ll mind our own business.”

The dialogue between Vaibhav Singh and Zahack Tanvir wasn’t just a critique of selective outrage; it was a call to maturity in activism. It challenged Indian Muslims—and Indians at large—to think with clarity, weigh their allegiances with wisdom, and prioritize national interest over borrowed causes.

We are ancient nations, young and proud… We are peaceful nations… but we are not going to hesitate from gaining what we need through solidarity

On Saturday, Chitresh Kapoor and India’s Geopolitical Analyst Vaibhav Singh hosted Israel’s Ambassador to India, Reuven Azar, on the podcast Defensive Offense.

Since assuming his role in August 2024, Ambassador Azar has been a key figure in fostering the growing partnership between two of the world’s oldest civilizations—India’s Sanatan Dharma and the Jewish people.

Their dialogue explored the historical and strategic ties between the nations, the evolving threats posed by radical forces like Hamas and Iran, and the potential for deeper collaboration in the decades ahead.

A Shared Civilizational Resilience

The conversation began with a reflection on the deep historical connection between India and Israel, which Ambassador Azar described as a “civilizational connect.” Both nations, he noted, have endured invasions and foreign domination over millennia, yet preserved their cultural identities through resilience and memory.

“Unlike many old civilizations that vanished under the pressure of invasions, we stayed, we prevailed,” Azar remarked, attributing this survival to cultural perseverance rather than continuous sovereignty. For the Jewish people, landless for nearly 2,000 years, this meant developing “techniques of memory,” a theme he promised to elaborate on later but left tantalizingly unexplored in the podcast.

Official diplomatic relations between India and Israel began in 1992, yet their partnership predates this milestone. Azar highlighted how the relationship started “quietly and almost clandestinely,” rooted in mutual security challenges.

“We could help each other,” he said, emphasizing that trust, forged through defense cooperation, became the bedrock of their strategic alliance. This trust has since expanded into agriculture, water management, and high-tech sectors, with India boldly adopting Israeli technologies under Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s leadership.

One standout example is the agricultural partnership. Indian companies, such as Jain Irrigation’s acquisition of Israeli firm NaanDanJain, have collaborated with Israel to establish 32 Centers of Excellence across India. These centers provide subsidized seedlings, enhancing crop yields and food security—a testament to how Israeli innovation complements India’s scale.

Azar also pointed to emerging areas like water management, critical given India’s resource challenges, and the potential for joint research and development (R&D) in infrastructure and technology.

Geopolitical Shifts: Trump, Trade, and Trilateral Ties

The discussion took a timely turn toward global economic shifts, particularly with the recent U.S. administration change under President Donald Trump. Azar noted that both India and Israel have navigated relations with the Trump administration effectively, despite new trade tariffs announced just days before the podcast.

With India facing a 17% tariff and Israel 26%—compared to 54% for China and around 50% for Cambodia and Vietnam—both nations stand to gain as production shifts away from heavily taxed countries. “Textiles, the most flexible industry, could move to India within days,” Azar predicted, foreseeing a boost to India’s economy even before a potential U.S.-India trade deal.

This economic realignment underscores a trilateral dynamic among India, Israel, and the U.S. “Our relationship is not only bilateral but bears strategic significance trilaterally,” Azar said, urging a pragmatic rather than confrontational approach to such shifts.

For India, rising as a global economic power, and Israel, a technological innovator, this partnership could reshape supply chains and regional influence.

The Middle East: Hamas, Iran, and a New Alignment

The podcast pivoted to the Middle East, where Israel faces persistent threats from radical groups like Hamas and state actors like Iran.

Singh referenced former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir’s poignant statement: “We can forgive them for killing our children, but we cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill theirs.” He asked whether, decades later, anti-Semitism and hatred toward Israel have diminished.

Azar’s response was sobering: the October 7, 2023, Hamas attack, with its brutal atrocities, marked the worst violence against Jews since the Holocaust. Yet, he argued, the nature of the conflict has evolved.

Historically, Israel battled pan-Arab nationalism, a secular movement that sought to eliminate the Jewish state as a colonial outpost—a narrative Azar dismissed, asserting, “Jews belong to Judea.” After five wars, this ideology waned, with Egypt’s peace treaty under Anwar Sadat marking a turning point. However, Sadat’s 1981 assassination by Islamists (Khalid Islamboli) signaled the rise of a new threat: pan-Islamic radicalism. Azar traced this shift through the Arab Spring of 2010, which, despite initial hopes for democracy, empowered radical forces like Iran and its proxies.

Today, he explained, the Middle East hosts two deeper conflicts: the Shiite-Sunni divide and the struggle between radicals and pragmatists.

Israel, he argued, is a “token” exploited by radicals to destabilize the region, with Iran’s ultimate aim not Jerusalem but Mecca and Medina. Within this context, Hamas’s attack and Israel’s retaliation did not unravel ties with Arab states, unlike past conflicts. “No Arab country has disconnected diplomatic relations,” Azar noted, citing the Abraham Accords and joint defense efforts against Iran’s April 2024 ballistic missile barrage as evidence of a new alignment.

Singh pressed further, asking why Saudi Arabia is often implicated in Israel-related conflicts. Azar pointed to the Shiite-Sunni rift, with Iran leveraging propaganda to undermine Saudi pragmatism.

He recalled the 2015 JCPOA nuclear deal, which both Israel and Saudi Arabia opposed, as a moment of crystallized common interest. While hesitant to predict Saudi recognition of Israel, he suggested it hinges on mutual benefit and timing. He said it while quoting King Solomon—“Everything has a time under the sun”—there is time for war and time for peace.

Aspirations for Indo-Israel Ties: Beyond Defense

Returning to bilateral ties, Kapoor asked about the future as the 30-year-old relationship approaches its 50th anniversary in 2042. Beyond defense—where Israel supplies equipment like drones and missile systems—Azar envisioned a partnership transcending trade.

“Our relationship is much more than transactions,” he said, rooted in shared heritage, trust, and India’s steadfast support during Israel’s recent war. This solidarity has spurred Israeli interest, with monthly ministerial visits and university collaborations on R&D.

Tourism emerged as another frontier. Kapoor noted that Israelis frequent Goa, Hampi, Manali, and Ladakh while Indian tourists to Israel, mainly from Kerala, visit for religious reasons. 

Azar highlighted Israel’s high GDP per capita ($55,000) and travel habits—20 million tourism packages annually for a 10-million-strong population—suggesting untapped potential as India’s per capita income rises. By 2050, with India projected at $10,000 per capita, he foresaw “hundreds of millions” of Indian travelers exploring the world, including Israel.

Kapoor proposed defense exchange programs for veterans, given both nations’ conflict histories. Azar welcomed the idea, noting Israel’s view of India as a safe haven and the potential for educational and cultural exchanges to deepen people-to-people ties.

Radicalism and Propaganda: A Global Challenge

The conversation darkened as Singh raised Iran’s role in terrorism, from historical invasions of India to modern proxy wars.

Azar praised Israel’s contributions—drip irrigation, desalination, and tech innovation—contrasting them with Iran’s export of ballistic missiles and drones to groups like the Houthis and Hezbollah. He warned of Iran’s infiltration of Western institutions, using media and academia to portray itself as a victim while perpetrating terrorism.

Singh echoed this, citing the Muslim Brotherhood’s growing influence in India via scholars trained abroad. Azar cautioned vigilance, citing the UAE’s successful deradicalization of its education system as a model. He acknowledged Israel’s own Muslim Brotherhood party, noting its varied nature, but stressed the broader threat of radicals exploiting democratic freedoms.

Netanyahu’s Popularity and Leadership

Singh concluded by noting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s unrivaled popularity in India, evident in record-breaking TV ratings during his visits. Azar attributed this to shared national pride and leadership.

“We are ancient nations, young and proud… We are peaceful nations… but we are not going to hesitate from gaining what we need through solidarity”, he said, likening Netanyahu and Modi as proactive leaders who defy apology.

The Abraham Accords, he argued, stemmed from Netanyahu’s strategy of strength—economic, military, and diplomatic—shifting regional dynamics.

Addressing the Gaza conflict, Singh questioned the high civilian toll reported after October 7. Azar defended Israel’s actions, arguing Hamas’s tactics—operating from hospitals and disguising terrorists as civilians—forced a tragic response. He challenged inflated casualty figures, suggesting half were terrorists, and compared Israel’s urban warfare record favorably to historical precedents, despite biased narratives from outlets like Al Jazeera and the UN.

A Partnership for the Future

The podcast underscored a relationship built on trust, resilience, and mutual interest, poised to grow as both nations rise. From countering radicalism to fostering innovation and tourism, India and Israel share a vision that transcends geopolitics—a civilizational bond ready to shape the 21st century.